#33 05-07-2006, 07:12 PM neil Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Orlando.FL Posts: 818 Originally Posted by Daryl After trying it I came to the following conclusion. Tilting gives a downward force to the #4pp. Yes Daryl,now does the "back and down" right shoulder make sense?(in another post). __________________ neil k neil View Public Profile Send a private message to neil Find all posts by neil