Could someone please help me by pointing out a visual difference between these two strokes. When I play them frame by frame I see no difference. Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
Could someone please help me by pointing out a visual difference between these two strokes. When I play them frame by frame I see no difference. Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
Your post highlights a major difficulty in teaching, and that is determining whether the Student is a Hitter or a Swinger. As Homer Kelley says in 1-F: "Whether [the Right Arm] participation is active or passive is difficult to detect visually...".
After experiencing thousands of Golf Strokes, an alert and knowldgeable Instructor can come to sense the Motion of the Hitter versus the Swinger. Sometimes, perhaps even most often, the difference is immediately apparent. Particularly in terms of Address Position, Length of Stroke, obvious Loading characteristics, the Release Motion through Impact, the Roll of the Hinge Action and the Finish characteristics.
In the case of my video, I think it is difficult to tell. And that is because I have worked very hard to make sure there is as little difference between them as possible. For example, in this video, I used Standard Address in both. And my Hands stop at or near Right Shoulder high in both. Also, my Body (Pivot) Loads the Lag during the Start Down and transports my Power Package to Release. I Trace the Straight Line Delivery Line in both. [I rarely use the Angle of Approach procedure when I Hit.]
So, I have worked hard to keep the Geometry of the Stroke -- how it looks to others -- as consistent as possible. Nevertheless, the Physics of the Action -- what drives the Club through Impact -- is totally different. In the Swing, my Backstroke was a touch longer, and I Loaded my Left Wrist. During Release, my Left Wrist 'Throws Out' the Club. In the Hit, the Backstroke was slightly shorter, and I Loaded my Right Elbow, and during Release, my Right Elbow Drives Out -- hard. So, the Loading and the Release are the differenting factors. And in my own case, that is very "difficult to detect visually."
But if you could Feel what I Feel...
Wow!
Big Difference!
In Hitting, that piston-like Right Arm Thrust is unmistakeable. As is its active #3 Pressure Point Pressure. In Swinging, that same Pressure Point (and Right Forearm) guides the Stroke but it is passive. I 'crank the Gyroscope' with the Pivot in Start Down and then hang on as Centrifugal Force does the work.
It's fun to be able to do both. If for no other reason than it helps you to better understand your own natural inclinations and how to make your preferred Pattern as pure as possible.
A Message To Those Who Would Libel And Slander Lynn Blake
BTW, as an aside to those readers who may frequent another site whose owner seems preoccupied with what I teach and who seems to delight in throwing personal and professional barbs my way every day...
In fact, despite the vilification recently endured, I teach the Classic Standard Address to most. For what it's worth, the rest of the 'case' these troubled souls have against me holds the same water. They have learned an incalculable amount from reading me over the past 34 months, and yet their ungrateful and jealous spirits can return only invective and stone.
This site is who I am. What you see and what you read is what you get with Lynn Blake. The attempt to paint me as some kind of 'dark side' force in TGM is ludicrous on its face. As will attest my twenty Professional Contributors on this site and also, my many other friends in TGM around the world.
Word to the not-so-wise and those closely associated:
If these illegal activities continue -- false accusations, illegal tampering with personal website profiles and identities, deliberate and malicous name-calling and characterizations, etc. -- there will be consequences.
BTW, as an aside to those readers who may frequent another site whose owner seems preoccupied with what I teach and who seems to delight in throwing personal and professional barbs my way every day...
In fact, despite the vilification recently endured, I teach the Classic Standard Address to most. For what it's worth, the rest of the 'case' these troubled souls have against me holds the same water. They have learned an incalculable amount from reading me over the past 34 months, and yet their ungrateful and jealous spirits can return only invective and stone.
This site is who I am. What you see and what you read is what you get with Lynn Blake. The attempt to paint me as some kind of 'dark side' force in TGM is ludicrous on its face. As will attest my twenty Professional Contributors on this site and also, my many other friends in TGM around the world.
Word to the not-so-wise and those closely associated:
If these illegal activities continue -- false accusations, illegal tampering with personal website profiles and identities, deliberate and malicous name-calling and characterizations, etc. -- there will be consequences.
I didn't start this 'thing,' but trust me...
I can end it.
That site has in large part turned into a bad joke, and it is a damn shame as the person in charge is talented and has a lot of good information.
__________________
"In my experience, if you stay with the essentials you WILL build a repeatable swing undoubtedly. If you can master the Imperatives you have a champion" (Vikram).
The reason you can't sustain the lag is because you are so eager to make the club move fast (a reaction to the intent of "hitting it far"). So on a full shot you throw it away too early, which doesn't happen for your short chip. (bts)
That site has in large part turned into a bad joke, and it is a damn shame as the person in charge is talented and has a lot of good information.
Thank you for that statement of support, mrodock. However, it was not my purpose to recruit LBG friends to my defense -- or rally any naysayers -- and for that reason, yours will be the last post I will let stand on the matter.
No, I will not air my grievances in cyberspace. A civilized society has another process for that.
Counsel has been retained, and unless these unlawful activities cease immediately, I will use it.
Your post highlights a major difficulty in teaching, and that is determining whether the Student is a Hitter or a Swinger. As Homer Kelley says in 1-F: "Whether [the Right Arm] participation is active or passive is difficult to detect visually...".
After experiencing thousands of Golf Strokes, an alert and knowldgeable Instructor can come to sense the Motion of the Hitter versus the Swinger. Sometimes, perhaps even most often, the difference is immediately apparent. Particularly in terms of Address Position, Length of Stroke, obvious Loading characteristics, the Release Motion through Impact, the Roll of the Hinge Action and the Finish characteristics.
In the case of my video, I think it is difficult to tell. And that is because I have worked very hard to make sure there is as little difference between them as possible. For example, in this video, I used Standard Address in both. And my Hands stop at or near Right Shoulder high in both. Also, my Body (Pivot) Loads the Lag during the Start Down and transports my Power Package to Release. I Trace the Straight Line Delivery Line in both. [I rarely use the Angle of Approach procedure when I Hit.]
So, I have worked hard to keep the Geometry of the Stroke -- how it looks to others -- as consistent as possible. Nevertheless, the Physics of the Action -- what drives the Club through Impact -- is totally different. In the Swing, my Backstroke was a touch longer, and I Loaded my Left Wrist. During Release, my Left Wrist 'Throws Out' the Club. In the Hit, the Backstroke was slightly shorter, and I Loaded my Right Elbow, and during Release, my Right Elbow Drives Out -- hard. So, the Loading and the Release are the differenting factors. And in my own case, that is very "difficult to detect visually."
But if you could Feel what I Feel...
Wow!
Big Difference!
In Hitting, that piston-like Right Arm Thrust is unmistakeable. As is its active #3 Pressure Point Pressure. In Swinging, that same Pressure Point (and Right Forearm) guides the Stroke but it is passive. I 'crank the Gyroscope' with the Pivot in Start Down and then hang on as Centrifugal Force does the work.
It's fun to be able to do both. If for no other reason than it helps you to better understand your own natural inclinations and how to make your preferred Pattern as pure as possible.
I like this post . . . I have you on video from my Swamp dealie and as you say it is VERY difficult to see the difference. I actually think that you can pick it up better in "full speed" view rather than Freeze Frame (was that the J Giles Band?). The Swing looks a little more "swingy" and the Hit looks a little more "punchy."
Why do you "dis" the Angle of Approach? Super Ted is a-foaming at-the-mouth-Angle-of-Approach-rip-you-a-new-one-Hitter right? Mr. K LOVED the Angle of Approach procedure right?
Is your Hitting Trace different than your Swinging Trace?
I like this post . . . I have you on video from my Swamp dealie and as you say it is VERY difficult to see the difference. I actually think that you can pick it up better in "full speed" view rather than Freeze Frame (was that the J Giles Band?). The Swing looks a little more "swingy" and the Hit looks a little more "punchy."
Why do you "dis" the Angle of Approach? Super Ted is a-foaming at-the-mouth-Angle-of-Approach-rip-you-a-new-one-Hitter right? Mr. K LOVED the Angle of Approach procedure right?
Is your Hitting Trace different than your Swinging Trace?
Even to the trained eye, it is definitely easier to visually pick up the nuances 'in motion' versus 'freeze frame.' And for whatever the reason, it is also easier to detect the nuances 'in person' rather than on video. At least it is for me.
For the record, my dear friend and yesterday's birf'day boy, Bucket, I never "dissed" the Angle of Approach" procedure. I just choose not to use it. As you can see in the Hitter's Drive Loading Stroke Pattern (12-1-0), the listed Variation is the Square Plane Line (10-5-A). This is the Geometric basis of the Angle of Approach Visual Equivalent and, as such, is always the player's option.
If I had more time to devote to it, that could change. But for now, the steepness of the Backstroke feels artificial to me, and I could not trust it without a lot more work.
That said, Homer felt it was the most sophisticated application of the Hitting procedure. But he also said it wasn't worth the trouble for most players.
Ted goes back and forth between the two. Right now, I think he's 'forth,' but you will need to ask him!
Even to the trained eye, it is definitely easier to visually pick up the nuances 'in motion' versus 'freeze frame.' And for whatever the reason, it is also easier to detect the nuances 'in person' rather than on video. At least it is for me.
For the record, my dear friend and yesterday's birf'day boy, Bucket, I never "dissed" the Angle of Approach" procedure. I just choose not to use it. As you can see in the Hitter's Drive Loading Stroke Pattern (12-1-0), the listed Variation is the Square Plane Line (10-5-A). This is the Geometric basis of the Angle of Approach Visual Equivalent and, as such, is always the player's option.
If I had more time to devote to it, that could change. But for now, the steepness of the Backstroke feels artificial to me, and I could not trust it without a lot more work.
That said, Homer felt it was the most sophisticated application of the Hitting procedure. But he also said it wasn't worth the trouble for most players.
Ted goes back and forth between the two. Right now, I think he's 'forth,' but you will need to ask him!
I do like the Angle of Approach procedure. There are times that I'll use 10-5-A and times that I'll use 10-5-E. I like using E when I'm working on down and out thrust, and I find it very safe in competition. Since I only swing in demonstrating, I have little use for the 10-5-A, anymore.
It's personally entertaining to take a wedge, send it out about thirty degrees right of the target, and watch the ball go dead straight.
I do like the Angle of Approach procedure. There are times that I'll use 10-5-A and times that I'll use 10-5-E. I like using E when I'm working on down and out thrust, and I find it very safe in competition. Since I only swing in demonstrating, I have little use for the 10-5-A, anymore.
It's personally entertaining to take a wedge, send it out about thirty degrees right of the target, and watch the ball go dead straight.
TeddyLawng. . . . What say you about the Divergence of the Delivery Line and the Clubface?
I think many would assume that the above quote I bolded would result in a big fat hook . . . Tell 'em why it just ain't so! That is the beauty of the Angle of Approach Procedure . . . it ain't for girlie mens is it?!?!
It's fun to be able to do both. If for no other reason than it helps you to better understand your own natural inclinations and how to make your preferred Pattern as pure as possible.
Yoda,
You mention on video that one of the big difference between hitting and swinging is "The Rhythm". You noted that as you were switching between procedures fairly quickly. Can you expand on that comment briefly?
Thanks,
__________________
Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
I just choose not to use it. As you can see in the Hitter's Drive Loading Stroke Pattern (12-1-0), the listed Variation is the Square Plane Line (10-5-A). This is the Geometric basis of the Angle of Approach Visual Equivalent and, as such, is always the player's option.
Hybrid Mode
